Entrevista a Ernestina Ródenas, presidenta de Dones en L’Església

“Soy de izquierda, obrera. Siempre me he tenido que mover en ambientes hostiles y contrarios. Estoy en la frontera, soy incómoda para muchos”. Así se presenta Ernestina Ródenas, presidenta del Col·lectiu de Dones en l’Església, que aglutina en Catalunya a alrededor de 200 creyentes (religiosas y laicas; también algunos varones) comprometidas con la igualdad de género. Incorporan el pensamiento feminista a la teología de la liberación, debaten con mujeres de otras confesiones y con feministas laicas, defienden el discurso del Concilio Vaticano II de que “la Iglesia no es el único espacio de salvación, sino una de las puertas”.

Una vez al mes, celebran el memorial del Señor, haciendo una formación sobre la Eucaristía a modo de “catequesis ilustrada con perspectiva de género”. “Está prohibido por la Iglesia, pero no nos importa. Bueno, las religiosas tienen menos libertad. Una mujer, que es responsable de su congregación, nos dijo en un acto: ‘A mí no me importa salir en la foto, pero ya me he llevado muchos palos’”. Ródenas tiene claro que Iglesia no es sinónimo de una jerarquía que se opone a los derechos de las mujeres, sino que la construye una comunidad de creyentes para la que el Evangelio no es un instrumento al servicio del poder, sino una fuente de liberación.

¿Identifica en las mujeres necesidades espirituales diferentes a las de los hombres?

Las mujeres estamos muy cerca de la vida, de las necesidades de la vida que se aprenden en comunidad. Tenemos mucha necesidad de expresarnos, no somos personajes solitarios. Los hombres, en cambio, han ligado la espiritualidad a la soledad y el aislamiento. Tradicionalmente, las iglesias han estado llenas de mujeres, porque es un espacio al que hemos podido ir solas, sin que nadie nos culpabilice, incluso como forma de escapar del ámbito doméstico. Además, las mujeres buscamos en la religión respuestas a nuestras experiencias vitales. Creamos vida, cuidamos vida; comprendemos fácilmente los mensajes religiosos, como el de la encarnación de Jesús, un dios que puedes estrechar en los brazos. También sentimos una mayor necesidad de buscar respuestas al sufrimiento, debido a los deberes y papeles que se nos han asignado. El evangelio puede ser liberador. Jesús siempre se inclinó por la mujer y por los más débiles, como indican las interpretaciones del evangelio nada misóginas que se han hecho últimamente.

Mucha gente atea no entiende cómo es que, siendo las iglesias instituciones con una organización patriarcal y con un discurso contrario a los derechos de las mujeres (como los reproductivos), sigan teniendo una base feminizada. ¿Qué hace que las mujeres sigan participando en estas instituciones?

Para mí la Iglesia no es la jerarquía. Somos la comunidad de creyentes. Nos reunimos, leemos el evangelio, que contiene palabras de liberación, que se pueden interpretar desde la perspectiva de género. Hay esperanza para rato. Por ejemplo, la historia de la mujer encorvada que sanó Jesús, porque no podía soportar verla así. Simboliza a la mujer oprimida que no puede levantar la vista del suelo. Jesús la endereza. Ella se pone de pie, anda, alaba a Dios, canta y baila. La religión entendida como la práctica del mensaje evangélico no quiere ver a ninguna mujer encorvada. Nos quiere de pie, felices… Nunca condena.

En una investigación sobre mujeres y religiones, he encontrado la siguiente afirmación: las mujeres identifican que las religiones imponen sus normas morales con mayor rigor sobre ellas que sobre los hombres; son conscientes de esa doble moral, pero no tienen herramientas para cuestionarla. ¿Qué opina?

No existe el hombre que embaraza, sólo la mujer embarazada, a ella se le cargan todas las penas, la exclusión, la culpa, la penalización. La mujer se queda sola y acusada por todo el mundo. El prostituidor y el proxeneta reciben menor condena que la prostituta. La doble moral es descaradamente actual. A la madre soltera y a la prostituta, Jesús les dice: “Yo no te condeno”.

La penalización del aborto es otro ejemplo de esa ideología que machaca a las mujeres. Pero hay herramientas. En el aniversario del Concilio Vaticano II, aboguemos por la libre conciencia, por que cada quién discierna sus opciones fundamentales. Y dejemos a un lado la culpa.

Popularmente se habla de la culpa cristiana. ¿No es una emoción inherente al catolicismo?

La culpa ha calado mucho. La civilización europea proviene de tesis no sólo cristianas, también aristotélicas, que no eran propicias a que la mujer tuviera un lugar prominente en la sociedad. La cultura cristiana europea ha pasado muchas épocas, en las que la mujer ha sido más libre. Nosotras arrastramos el estigma del clericalismo agudo de Franco. La culpa no es inherente al mensaje auténtico. La jerarquía, para tener poder, ha potenciado la cristiandad y se ha olvidado el reino de Dios: la paz, la justicia, la igualdad. Los estados han utilizado la religión como instrumento de dominio y poder. Los más débiles lo sufren.

Pero, en materia de moral sexual, ¿hay algún mandato insalvable? ¿Se pueden cuestionar todos?

Los movimientos feministas laicos nos han hecho un gran favor redescubriendo el sentido del placer, de la alegría, en contra de la idea de que hemos venido al mundo para sufrir. Las mujeres católicas lo han ido interiorizando. En España las mujeres no podían estudiar teología, pero en otros países sí, y había teólogas feministas de las que estamos aprendiendo. Sabemos que Dios puede ser madre y padre a la vez, no se le puede poner etiquetas. Y que, donde hay amor, ahí está Dios.

Ese es el lema de una campaña a favor de la diversidad del Movimiento Feminista de Nicaragua, cuya imagen es de dos mujeres besándose. ¿Qué le parece?

Pues muy bien. No es que el amor sea algo perfecto que pueda con todo, pero me parece un buen mensaje.

Entonces, ¿qué es el pecado?

El pecado es un invento. Es la negación de la vida, la negación de la posibilidad de ser feliz. Es una construcción social. El pecado es un desorden que te provocas a ti misma, pero tú eres el primer damnificado y tienes una carga que te llevas a cuestas. Jesús hablaba de pecado porque era el lenguaje de la época, pero no cargaba contra los pecadores. Asistimos a una teología del pecado muy totalitaria. El recurso fácil es culpabilizar a la mujer, cargar más peso a la mujer encorvada. La confesión es un instrumento de poder. Hace años que no me confieso. Por eso las mujeres van abandonando las iglesias. Los obreros abandonaron la iglesia por las injusticias a principios del siglo XX, los jóvenes a mediados de siglo, las mujeres en el siglo XXI. Queremos cambiar las cosas, y también queremos que los hombres cambien su modelo de masculinidad.

Pero, ¿cómo puede una mujer de un pueblo pequeño acceder a esos discursos alternativos a los del cura de su parroquia?

Antes era imposible. O te ibas del pueblo, o te metías en una orden religiosa. Ahora las mujeres de los pueblos tienen recursos. Hay medios de comunicación. Escriben cartas, envían correos, opinan. Si es necesario, denuncian. Abandonemos la idea de la mujer pobrecita que no sabe. Han perdido el miedo a pronunciarse. El discurso patriarcal viene de muy antiguo, no lo emite sólo la iglesia sino toda la sociedad: desde los medios de comunicación a los púlpitos, se dice a las mujeres lo que tienen que hacer. Es muy difícil sustraerse de ese pensamiento único. A medida que las mujeres se organizan en grupos, ahí hay una fuerza.

La Conferencia Episcopal se vuelca contra el aborto, pero no se ha manifestado contra la violencia machista, contra el feminicidio.

La Iglesia tiene un defecto: le obsesiona mucho el final y el principio de la vida. Reserva únicamente a Dios el derecho a decidir. Esto marca la postura ante la eutanasia y el aborto. Así, que se mate en guerras parece inevitable y, efectivamente, no se han desarrollado medidas de protección a las víctimas de la violencia machista. La jerarquía confunde el poder de Dios con su propio poder de influir. Pero hay personas clarividentes dentro de la Iglesia que lo están denunciando, como Teresa Forcades.

El libro ‘Cásate y sé sumisa’ se ha convertido en un éxito de ventas. ¿Cree que ese mandato de sumisión femenina impera en el discurso hegemónico de la Iglesia católica?

Se podían haber ahorrado ese libro. Ni me molesto en contestar. No vamos a discutir tonterías. Es un intento desesperado de querer salvar lo que ven amenazado: sienten que con el papa Francisco, todo se les va de las manos. El pensamiento único aparentemente da seguridad. Vendes tu libre conciencia a cambio de esa falsa seguridad.

¿Qué espera del papa Francisco?

Está en nuestra línea, de desmontar artificios innecesarios, abriendo camino para que el Evangelio pueda leerse con mayor claridad; bienvenido sea. Pero no soy mitómana. Es una voz como la nuestra, sólo que desde el altavoz del Vaticano suena más alto y lejos.

¿Aboga por que las mujeres que se topen con discursos machistas en las Iglesias vivan su fe sin intermediarios o en espacios alternativos?

Eso estamos haciendo. Las mujeres enseñamos, aprendemos teología, historia, biblia, trabajamos en redes solidarias con otras mujeres para conseguir la igualdad, somos críticas como cómo gobiernan los hombres. Pensamos estrategias para desmontar mitos y lenguajes excluyentes. Debatimos sobre ecofeminismo, teología queer (la teología de los márgenes, que reconoce a Dios en los sujetos que desecha la sociedad; negros, homosexuales, transexuales…). Rescatamos la aportación indispensable de mujeres bíblicas, históricas. Por ejemplo, contamos que San Jerónimo, quien tradujo la biblia (representado en una cueva, desnudo con una calavera) contó con un grupo de mujeres del Tridentino que tenían poder (porque los hombres estaban en la guerra) y que fueron un apoyo clave en su trabajo.

Construimos la Iglesia que soñamos. No queremos ser iguales que ellos, no queremos que nos hagan curas ni llegar a papas. No nos interesa. No tendría que haber papa ni Vaticano.

Fonte: http://www.pikaramagazine.com/2014/01/el-evangelio-no-quiere-mujeres-oprimidas-jesus-nos-quiere-felices-y-bailando/

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